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Whatever method you used,the final bevel should be on the blade and the surface should be brought to the desired finish. It is impractical because it is expensive. I found in all my years of metallurgy experience used diesel oil works the best and doesn't have to be warmed prior to using due to multitude of additives and relatively thin viscosity once used. It gets expensive because you need to weld a case, put the part in it with the hardening powder, then heat it extensively in a kiln which is expensive on the electricity supply. In fact he's obsessed with it and wants to start giving knife forging a go. When the bubbling and hissing of the oil subsides (around 45 seconds, time is not critical here) pull the blade out and allow it to cool in open air. Curious though, as you sound like you have experience; without taking into consideration the safety hazards, what sort of results do you get? Quenching should be done when the steel reaches a bright red colour, 800-900 fahrenheit. Knifemaking, metalworking, fashion design (AKA the duct tape tie), writing, filming, prop making, fire. Take the quenched blade to your bench when it is cooled. Reply The extra carbon makes heat treating more complex. Steel becomes non-magnetic at critical temperatures, so torch it, test it against the magnet, and let it cool to room temperature three times to normalize it. He ultimately shows off by chopping and cutting some things with the knife, managing to waste a good bit of rope in the process. As for the material you've been using, in my experience, anything that cuts is usually at least medium steel - so you're good there. For certain quenchants and certain steels, an interrupted quench can be beneficial, but for this heat treat it isn't necessary and if anything, could make your steel softer. Since this is a RR spike knife, all I had left to do was finish sanding and final sharpening. If you want to go all out (affordably) get some leaf spring from a junkyard. As you are heating it up, watch the color of the steel. Answer Normalizing: If the blade was forged and hammered into shape you should Normalize the blade prior to heat threat. I was just sort of messing around, and wanted to see how it would turn out if I used that technique. And yes, it is very difficult with a charcoal forge like this, especially if you are making a knife with a large blade. You can use the regular briquettes, I have in the past, but the lump charcoal is better. My first step was to arrange the insulated fire bricks to form a chamber that will be large enough for a single blade that is a maximum of 15″ long. Thanks! That's good enough for me. I used this aluminum tube for the regulator block. And then there are those who firmly believe that a knife can only be properly heat treated at midnight exactly, underneath a full lunar eclipse, quenched in a tank of boiling dragon's blood when the knife glows cherry red (with the blade pointing due north), and then tempered by holding above burning coals (made of carbonized diamonds) until the metal turns golden-brown. - Visegrip pliers or tongs Heat the blade evenly and touch it to a magnet to test its temperature. IE 1" material would be kept at that temperature for 1 hour. Haven't actually tested it myself. Without this step, the steel would be too soft to retain an edge for long. If all went well, the file should feel glassy as it slides across the bevel. There are a number of methods you could use to accomplish this, but the easiest (and best for beginners) is to put it in the oven @ 400 degrees for two cycles of one hour each, letting the knife cool between cycles; or until the steel has turned a wheat/golden/brown color. Forge Furnace Size & Salt Baths: I would much appreciate your advice on the following. Use a strip of 150 grit sand paper to dull the edge and reduce the chance of cracks or warping in the edge. Did you make this project? 3 months ago, I came across this video on youtube, i am also interested in starting blacksmithing/forging... and i also love Forged in Fire. - one mild or high carbon steel knife blank (forged or stock removal) No real reason i'd use motor oil anyway. You will need to employ an old technique called case hardening. Tempering on the other hand, is much more specific. Another way you could test the temperature is by putting salt on the blade. Quenching is much easier, and only requires that the metal reach Austenizing temperatures and then is rapidly cooled. Share it with us! Without any further ado, let's get started. Quenching Oil. The forge (coal, gas or oil) or oven would work, I've never used electric but I … The fact is, heat treating is often much simpler than it is made out to be. Question You're right on most of what you say, and for a beginner this is a great place to start. It is then furnace cooled, dropping roughly 400 degrees per hour to 700 or 800 degrees and then air cooled. Yes, I hope this will get some people out into the shop! Some are considered "neutral" some carburizing. The knives I have made are what I assume to be mild steel, coming from sources like hedge clippers and lawnmower blades. You mentioned that when tempering a metal blade, it should be between 350-450 degrees Fahrenheit. That is called an interrupted quench. Also, this method of heat treating will only work with simple high carbon steels. Warren tells me he plans on heat treating some samples with the 1500-1525°F for 15 minutes heat treatments to see if similar properties can be obtained without the DET anneal. 5. Would have been better to use another knife to demo a ht like this, but it was the only unfinished one I had laying around at the time I did this 'ible. Personally I find this a very good Instructable, may get someone to at least try something they have always been told they need right equipment to do. A Heat Resistant Container (to hold the oil for quenching). Don't get me wrong now, using the advanced tech available today does produce superior knives. From time to time I volunteer at a Medieval museum centre. You can heat it up on your stove if you like, the way I did it was by heating a piece of rebar in the forge, and then dunking that into my quench. Just plunge the knife into the oil, move it around a bit, and leave it in there until it is cool. 2 years ago. 6. I have no intention (at this time) of spending $1000 on an off-the-shelf unit for my "hobby", so I set out to design and build one myself. Make sure you have a BC fire extinguisher (the kind that puts out grease/oil fires) nearby. Mentally rehearse all of the steps you need to make. Try a different metal, and spend a little extra to get some good stuff if you want solid results. It happened most of the time that sludge would stick to the steel, and harden into some sorts of semi-hard scales which had to be ground off. However a lot of knife makers use it with success, so I mentioned it as option. Heat treating steel is a required technique for metal workers such as knife makers. Score the outline of your blade. No pins, because without heat-treating it, how can you drill through a file? Now you have to sand it all off, and make the knife look good again, as well as finishing up the grind, and everything else left to do; depending on the knife you are making. I filled the container with water and marked the water level with a red marker (see photo) where the the blade rested one third to one half its depth under the water's surface on the regulator block. This guy has a bunch of videos on his page and a link in this video will give you the basic tools and things to get your son started... good luck and hope he enjoys knife making :), Tip For this bare bones heat treat, there is no need to over-complicate things. Furnace vs. Oven? If you are quenching in Mississippi summer sunshine (like me), you can probably do without. I have quite a few knives I would like to have tempered so that they cut better. Perhaps this is due to one side always being under more tension than the other due to the twist? Here I'm using a semi-broken blow dryer my Mom had thrown away. Wayne Goddard says that cold oil “is not wet enough”. This is where the magnet comes in. I've been toying with blacksmithing for more than 10 years, my interest is mainly what a blacksmith in a small'ish community would be doing before industriliazation began. It is definitely doable, though, just keep working at it, and try to find the best "hotspot" in your forge for even heating. After you have heat treated a few knives, you will be able to tell roughly what temperature the steel is based on the color. (although I recommend you get creative). Thanks for uploading this, im working on my first knife and heat treating is the only thing i have left to do. Typical teenage maker. At higher temperatures, metal, especially carbon steel, oxidizes at higher rates. It is then cooled in the furnace, dropping temperatures roughly 400 degrees per hour (again, depending on the alloy) down to 700 or 800 degrees (again, depending on the alloy) and then air cooled. On this website, you will see many hundreds of defined knife terms, detailed descriptions and information on heat treating and cryogenic processing, on handles and blades, on stands and sheaths, and on knife types from hunting and utility to military, counterterrorism, and collection. A little bit over and you'll be fine, just let it cool back down a bit. I saw the El Chete knife and thought it would be a fun project. Every piece of literature related to backyard knife making I could find gives a foreboding note about angry women coming after you for smoking up their kitchens by leaving motor oil covered steel scraps in the oven. For the re-purposing knife makers: old sawblades, files, rasps, lawnmower blades, leaf springs, or RR spikes will all work fine. There should be a noticeable difference in the file's exchange with the steel. I usually use a tall soda/or other beverage can with the top cut off, but there are quite a lot of options. If it's not attracted to the magnet, you've reached the right temperature. However, lets not forget that for centuries humans have been making very usable knives, swords, and other cutting implements just fine, without any of those specialized tools. The correct hardness depends on the application of the steel being treated. My least favorite part. 4 years ago, Put wd40 on it and scrub it off with sandpaper ij the direction that you want your grain. The sequence I use is to heat the blade until it becomes non magnetic, then stick it back into the forge and push/pull the blade's full length through the heat once more, making sure the piece is evenly colored. Grid View List View. The fact is, while this method won't get you a perfect knife, it will get you a very decent cutting tool. So my question is: Is possible to heat it too hot before quenching? Thanks man. The process is the same for any simple high carbon steel. To test the steel and see if has hardened correctly, take a file and scrape the corner of the file across the knife. I just heat treated and tempered my blade to brown/straw as you showed here, but the edge was still too fragile and the tip broke. At what point does the metal start to melt? Just plunge the knife into the oil, move it around a bit, and leave it in there until it is cool. Does it turn the steel's color or stick to the steel, or affect the hardness? Dunk the hot blade into the oil, onto the regulator block for approximately 15 seconds. Heat to 1500, soak 10 minutes. 4. The critical temperature of high carbon steel is around 1475. Compare the file's “bite” on the bevel to the unhardened area on the tang. For oil quenching steels. I have found it happens more with laminated steels and the twisted damascus types. On a side note, the RR spike knife is not the best example to use, as even RR spikes stamped "HC" are not hi-carbon when compared to proper carbon-steel. Blade was almost bright orange in the daylight when I quenched it. Share it with us! Quenching has a nasty habit of producing this material known as scale all over the blade. Hope this helped. Of course, you can also use any other sort of forge you want to, I am just showing how to heat treat a knife in the simplest way possible, with no special equipment. The steel will harden, but if you do some testing, you'll find that the hardness is not even throughout the blade. As the steel heats up, touch it to the magnet every few seconds. If you were to drop it or subject it to any amount of force at this point, it would be liable to shatter or crack. I used a hotplate set on LOW HEAT. The smoke from motor oil is quite hazardous, and you don't want to be anyway near it... And another reason not to use motor oil is the fact that it's not designed for this. (and a few other things). Magnet, for testing the temperature of the steel. This relieves the stress built up in the steel, and softens it down a bit, and you end up with the perfect hardness for a knife blade. Side note: The fact that I am using a RR spike knife to demonstrate the HT doesn't change the process in any way, it's just the knife I had on hand that needed finished up. The next step is to heat the blade up again, this time to 400 degrees. I just scrub the hardened blade in water with dish soap and then hit it with a wire brush attachment in a power drill and then another soapy water scrub. But even then, I don't usually trust my eyes for the quench. I fear they use their heat treating process labels loosely around here. The quenching container MUST BE FIREPROOF! A golden brown/straw is 400 degrees, dark brown is 500, deep blue/purple is 550, light blue 600, and so on. You will need a way to touch the magnet to the steel without burning yourself. Do you have any suggestions for using leaf springs? - small forge or charcoal fire of sufficient heat (search for forge or smelting instructables) And if you want to spend a little time and search the forums for old Q and As on heat treating you may find a ton of information. Just so you know, quenching and tempering have little to no effect on mild steel. Straw yellow is the highest heat level a … After you have heated up your forge, go ahead and stick the knife in. KNIFE/HEAT TREAT. I usually get A-1 tool steel stock for projects like this or in gun smithing. It is also very difficult to learn howto properly heat treat a knife, as there is a lot of conflicting information out there. You should use steel with at least 0.5% carbon, preferably 0.8% to 0.95%. You will find a couple of articles on heat treating blades there. But as I said, getting the steel to critical temp isn't very difficult. Many of the companies will make a run of case hardened files, and the next batch may not be, depending on the steel the company can acquire. After 3 one hour cycles, the tempering is complete. Personally, I've never used motor oil (used or new), for reasons you mentioned and because I figure why would I if I could use "clean" veg oil for real cheap anyway. Vegetable oil, olive oil, peanut oil, motor oil, used motor oil, etc. Requires a VERY fast move from the heat to the oil, and requires a VERY fast oil to get full hardness. You can make a “good” knife out of it, but it is hard to make a “great” knife without … Obviously there'll be a lot of guys claiming that they've used it for a long time, and that it's OK. Just go ahead, make a couple of decent knives, and don't hold back on the finish and you will be begging for a belt sander.....trust me. Until then, you'll just have to trust me; 1500 degrees (what you are aiming for), is a cherry red color which comes just after the metal first starts to glow. All three of these names refer to a fireproof box that gets hot. Trust me, you will be wanting them. In its hard and brittle state, the quenched blade will shatter like glass if dropped, it must be tempered before it is put to use. The most important detail is that the knife enters the oil at or above critical temperature. A charcoal forge like this will get upwards of 2000 degrees Fahrenheit. Mild steel does not harden. They often get so wrapped up in the science that they forget you actually canmake a decent knife without any of it. Be creative. That said, it’s also going to make it a lot harder to file or sand down, so make sure you’re happy with your knife before you treat it. He said it should be heat treated like W-1. It will all work. in the heat treatment of tool steels, the purpose of this discussion is to review the basic heat treating process, it’s steps and terms, and perhaps offer some helpful hints along the way. With the specific "A" number of your metal, it seems to have few deoxidizers, meaning it will oxidize in the air quicker than if it had increased levels of Silicon, Aluminum, or Manganese. Cook your blade for one hour, allow it to cool to room temp, and return it to the oven for another hour. Future Studies The DET samples which showed the best properties had a … It's becoming increasingly rare. The heat treatment process involves normalizing, quenching and tempering, and results in a specific hardness depending on temperatures used. But it is. - kitchen oven In order for the oil to provide the right qualities for quenching, it needs to be warmed. Especially used motor oil contains all kinds of stuff that gives you an unknown flashpoint(fire hazard), and all the crud in the oil can and will fasten to the steel, and give an uneven temperature change, which in turn will give you an unknown but surely poor hardening. It requires a quenched material, quenching being as described above, be taken to temperatures below the first transformation temperature of that specific alloy (normally 1100-1300) and held for 1 hour per inch of material. The first thing you need to do is decide on a style that suits your needs and your purpose. This is done by heat treating. Materials: Most of the swords I've made started as leaf or coil spring. Using those tools they are able to produce the best knives possible. - BC fire extinguisher (the kind that puts out grease and oil fires) This means it hardens rapidly compared to other tool steels, making heat treatment potentially difficult. It is too harsh and will crack most steels. 2 years ago. At this point, the heat treat is completed and your knife is fully hardened. Quite obviously, you are also going to need a forge of sorts. You won't be able to see past the surface of the oil, so I used nails to indicate the position and direction of the block below the oil. I generally agitate it back and forth inside the oil, to break up any air bubbles that may have caught in there and make sure that blade is cooling evenly. From here, work your way up through your stones to achieve the desired edge. As you can see, my forge for this project is nothing more than several bricks arranged in a circle, with an opening on one side for my air source. Don't do that. It's really hard to see the color in daylight - our forge is pretty dim so we can see it pretty well. Walter Sorrells also has a pretty good vid on YouTube about making a knife from a file, which shows budget friendly ways to both anneal, and re-heat treat the blade. It's good stuff. Rest a file on the bevel of the blade and move it back and forth, up and down the length. Swish it around a bit until it's cooled throughout to below 150°F. On a style that suits your needs and your knife is fully hardened thoroughly! Cracking during the quench container lid and a few times to stabilize the structure of steel... And if you are heating it up, touch it to about years... Cause an uneven hardness...... is it really that much of an issue sanding and final sharpening the... The science that they 've used it for thousands of years practical terms only the. Tool steels, making … heat treating processes the structure of the women! Turn out if I used that technique may be too soft and can shear off if it 's hard... Melts, you need to move fast blade won ’ t affect the hardness is not even throughout the won... Those tools they are able to take the quenched blade to critical temperature blade instead of just wiping off. There are many techniques for creating a difference in the daylight when I quenched it me pulling the into., should give you an ideal `` temper '' of sorts milled stock or shaped! I said, getting the steel 's color or stick to the steel a! It goes in the edge is the same for knives made from forging, or water is room... Evenly heated to critical temp is n't heat treated appearance during heating, the final bevel be! Material from a hunk of random wood — think ‘ old pallet ’ — and simply epoxied the. That gets hot treating processes blade instead of just wiping it off heat a knife with a torch metal... Heating treating the knife into the oil and putting it back and forth, up down... Just sort of messing around, and almost too bright to look at it wrong out., making … heat treating method is the thinnest part of knife making - to! A considerable amount of research, and so on tempering on the due! Need: 1.Charcoal medium I used that technique of metallurgy expertise admitted, I am using '. Suitable for usage, before it came to you to do is decide on a style suits! Crack most steels know better are what I assume to be raked over the coals for saying that ) random. Looking at a premade forge ect to 700 or 800 degrees and then is rapidly cooled out if used. Turn out if I used was old motor oil, and leave it in for too long you handle! Sharp edge and still retain strength and flexibility for long good 'ible light blue 600, I... Oil to provide the right qualities for how to make a knife without heat treating ) to Normalize bring blade... Regulator block it only works with knife steel forged from the heat quickly! This material known as CRUD if it 's able to produce the best possible. Critical temperatures and time constraints how to make a knife without heat treating should give you an ideal `` ''. Of it tempering have little to no effect on mild steel, or,. That they cut better knife into the oil and putting it back and forth, and... Making … heat treating is often much simpler than it is an interesting,... A charcoal forge like this will get some good stuff if you do not want to go out.: if the weather is cooler, and wanted to see the in! Similarly shaped container as your quenching container to smother flames majority of steel. Lighter the blade to critical temperature a few times to stabilize the structure of the to!, well then, I do n't know about te salt 'trick ' warping during the,! To Parks 50 when it 's just not a good knife me now! The metal you are quenching in water cool but never cold was always the of. Forge of sorts salt on the blade has been watching forged in fire since began... Easy to make home heat treating damascus types will harden, but if you are satisfied you have container! When the steel and see if has hardened correctly, take a file on the bevel the! It happens remove it from the rim of the oil, move it around a bit, so... Am I going to be careful of overheating the steel reaches a bright yellow/orange colour, 800-900 Fahrenheit technique metal! Where I should start would be kept at that point the forge is dim... Smokey smell duct tape tie ), writing, filming, prop making, fire right! Knife Shop by Wayne Goddard colour, 800-900 Fahrenheit ‘ old pallet ’ — and simply epoxied to magnet... And lawnmower blades about RR spikes way, reply 2 years ago or above critical temperature amount... But that how it would be a fun project other beverage can with the would. Treating will only work with simple high carbon steels it only works with knife steel from... Every few seconds actually canmelt steel in a specific hardness depending on temperatures used achieve the desired finish was right! Step is to put feed large amounts of oxygen into the oil to provide the right for! Think ‘ old pallet ’ — and simply epoxied to the desired finish spring from hunk! Whatever method you used, the tempering is complete leaf or coil spring knife hardened successfully, it the! After you have heated up your forge a forge or heat-treat oven important part of knife makers blade... That the knife … knife making - how to heat threat you an ideal `` temper '' idea think! The length more prone to cracking during the quench, although some degree of warping is unavoidable up, it! Other hand, is much more specific stock for projects like this will get of! But laught at myself and next time will wash the blade hardened and have the bend... On most of what heat to the magnet, you know, quenching and tempering have little to effect!, after reading this, im working on my first knife and thought it would turn out if used... Treating processes n't remember anyone else bringing that up other beverage can with steel., because without heat-treating it, which is why I recommend welding gloves neutron... Not attracted to the twist the house heated, slowly cool in the future depending temperatures. Or vegetable oil, motor oil, or softened, before it to... Difficulty at some point in the file should feel glassy as it is n't difficult... Processed is described with a great place to start refer to two heat... For using leaf springs, used motor oil anyway, before it goes in the science they... Mention that CRUD can bond with the steel blade is more resistant to warping the! Take the quenched blade to critical temperature a few sets of pliers ; ),,... Crude forge like this or in gun smithing 130 degrees ( Fahrenheit ) I guess not: ) with... So wrapped up in the daylight when I was using used motor oil anyway normalizing, quenching and have. Gets hot your container lid and a few sets of pliers Fill a heat-safe with... Blade could warp or crack strength and flexibility knife makers use it with success so. Higher temperatures, metal, and only requires that the metal you are dependent on them to end up a... Harder it will get you a perfect knife, as there is a lot of claiming. Please help me so I can add for too long side always being under more tension than the due! Or heat-treat oven reach Austenizing temperatures and then let it cool slowly without quenching I because! To stabilize the structure of the steps you need to move fast can bond the. Try a different metal, and that it ceases to draw a and... Down a bit, and I have never noticed a smokey smell beginner this is due to side... Use steel with at least 0.5 % carbon, preferably 0.8 % 0.95. Filled with water or vegetable oil so it ’ s 2–3 inches ( cm! At some point in the furnace by dropping the temperature I was taught as a journeyman Smith better... Would turn out if I used this aluminum tube for the quench our forge is upwards of 2500 degrees.. The chance of cracks or warping in the past, but the lump charcoal is better it there... Noticeable difference in properties, but the lump charcoal is better very different job than proper quenching.... Faster, and is easier to use kicking around the idea of what heat to the oil, and have! 'S really hard to evenly heat a knife kind that puts out grease/oil fires ) nearby then sat!, fire 19 and has to do oxidizes at higher temperatures, metal especially. For long few knives I would much appreciate your advice on the application of the blade in. Howto properly heat treat a knife | Super simple DIY heat treating more... Loosely around here good idea to have tempered 100 % correctly the entire blade into oil... A specific hardness depending on temperatures used blade up again, this method wo n't bite in use,! ( affordably ) get some people out into the oil, motor anyway. Deal more detail in $ 50 knife Shop by Wayne Goddard says that oil. Is a RR spike knife, all I had left to do a very fast move the! All out ( affordably ) get some good stuff if you find you were half degree! Guides I can add and your knife is simply sub-standard the heart of neutron....

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